ACAT Meeting - July 26, 2012

Meeting Info

Date:Thursday, July 26, 2012
Location:1900 Yonge Street, 7th Floor Boardroom
Meeting No:255
  • Agenda
  • Meeting Minutes

Agenda is not available for this meeting.
Please check the meeting minutes for meeting details.

Agenda is not available for this meeting.
Please check the meeting minutes for meeting details.

Agenda is not available for this meeting.
Please check the meeting minutes for meeting details.

Agenda is not available for this meeting.
Please check the meeting minutes for meeting details.


  • Valdo Tammark, Chair
  • Brayan Bratanov, Co-Vice Chair
  • Scott McArthur, Co-Vice Chair
  • Mazin Aribi
  • William Castor
  • Debbie Gillespie
  • Lori March
  • Angela Marley
  • Lynn McCormick
  • Carol Anne Monet
  • Anna Noviss
  • Angela Rebeiro
  • Howard Wax


  • Penny Lamy
  • Dorothy Creaser

TTC Representatives

  • Bill Frost
  • Thomas Hartley
  • Tom McPherson
  • Bill Dawson


  • Andy Byford
  • David Dixon
  • Bill Frost
  • Sameh Ghaly
  • Vince Rodo 
  • Mitch Stambler 
  • Jim Teeple 
  • Chris Upfold
  • TTC Commissioners 

1. Call to Order / Attendance

 Valdo Tammark, Chair, called the meeting to order at 1:08 p.m. and attendance was taken.

2. Declaration of Conflict of Interest


3. Approval of Agenda

On motion by Mazin Aribi and seconded by William Castor, ACAT reviewed and approved the agenda.

4. Review and Approval of June 28, 2012 Minutes

On motion by Angela Marley and seconded by Mazin Aribi, ACAT reviewed and approved the Minutes with the following changes:

  • Page 3, #6 under Deputations, first paragraph line 2 should state “blind and deaf community”
  • Page 4, under Deputations, second to the last paragraph should read “Mazin Aribi thanked Mr. Villa for his submission and suggested he submit his suggestions...”
  • Page 7, #11 under Other/New Business, second paragraph, line 2 should read “The Coupler since 1921. It is only available today in e-form”.
  • Page 7, #12 under Next Meeting, the date should be “July 26, 2012”.
  • Page 7, #13 under Adjournment, the motion was moved by “Angela Marley” and not “Angela Rebeiro”.

5. Business Arising Out of Minutes/Outstanding Items

Debbie Gillespie commented that not a lot of reporting was being done with regard to outstanding items discussed during the meeting. No one is reporting back to the Committee on any progress. There is no feedback from Marketing regarding Station Pages.

Action: Bill Dawson will follow up with Marketing and will report back to the Committee.

Debbie Gillespie attended the TTC-sponsored meeting last week for LRV. There were concerns raised such as is it going to be in sync with TTC/Wheel-Trans with regard to Fare Collecting equipment, cards, etc. Debbie said that it should be the same process as TTC. It should be open and transparent. GO Transit and ACAT should be aware of what is happening.

Bill Dawson reported that TTC is working closely with the LRV group to ensure that there is hardware consistency such as identical cards and fare. With regard to fare though, there might be issues as there are different fare interpretations depending on the municipality. For example, Hamilton might have a different interpretation of what a seniors fare should be compared to Toronto. Mr. Dawson said that the TTC is working closely with the LRV Advisory/Accessibility Group about this. It is through this group that they could comment on the possible equipment or design layout.

Angela Marley raised a question if customer experience is still going to be the same.

Bill Dawson reported the hardware and code is the same like in Toronto but the fare arrangement maybe different. It depends on where you are.

Debbie Gillespie raised her concerns on the fare arrangement.

Valdo Tammark reported that usually it is “tap on/ tap off”, to know where you are going.

Bill Dawson reported that by “tapping”, it is the only way to know how far you went, fare by distance. Cross boundaries would need another tap.

Howard Wax asked about fare equipment in cabs. Angela Marley said that cabs can process the PRESTO. Tom McPherson agreed and noted that taxis now have point of payment terminals and PRESTO will need to identify how payment will be conducted. Metrolinx is aware of this.

6. Deputations - Nil


7. Subcommittee Reports and Updates

Service Planning Subcommittee (SPS) - Anna Noviss, Chair

This report does not replace approved meeting minutes.

Anna Noviss reported that the Service Planning Subcommittee met twice in July, on July 11 and on July 17, 2012. The following items were addressed during the July 11th meeting.

  • A status update was given on the Public Forum and attendees’ comments
  • People in Motion Show - Initiative to “TTC Certify” mobility devices
  • Roncesvalles Legacy Platform and Sidewalk Design
  • Service Disruptions - Conventions and Formal Strategies to Ensure Accessibility

Anna reported that the July 17th meeting was devoted to a comment-by-comment review of the input received at the 2012 Forum on Accessibility.

Anna will provide further details with a copy of the Outstanding Items in the approved meeting minutes which will be distributed in future ACAT Agenda package.

Design Review Subcommittee (DRS) - Bill Dawson

Bill Dawson reported that there was conflicting information about the visitation of LRVs. There are no Braille signs available and have to select new ones. The next meeting will be at the end of August.

Carol Anne Monet asked Mr. Dawson if he heard anything from Bombardier regarding the door chimes issue. Mr. Dawson said there is no feedback.

Lynn McCormick raised the issue of the new subway cars being up to 4 inches higher than the platform.

Mr. Dawson said that there are different things to consider with regard to the “level” system. The status of the wheels, height, etc. should be taken into consideration. The future subways once adjusted should be okay.

Lynn McCormick observed that while the train is coming in, the first door is usually at level with the train.

Anna Noviss and Valdo Tammark commented that it is usually dependent on which station you are at. Not all are perfectly levelled.

Bill Dawson reported that these issues have come up a number of times. Trains have load levels and can be adjusted depending on the number of people on the train. In the future, this will change one by one. New trains take weeks to adjust and, once in a while depending if you are boarding a new or old train, you will still notice that it is not levelled.

Lynn McCormick found the old trains better than the new ones.

Mazin Aribi commented that the trains in Eglinton Station always have a higher lip. There is an instance that he has to go to the second or third door to come in. He asked Mr. Dawson if there is a standard level of platform and car measurement deemed accessible or not accessible.

Bill Dawson reported that there is no standard set/measurement. The specific areas with problems such as Eglinton Station should be identified. Once identified, TTC will do the measurement and assessment so that it could be fixed.

Mazin Aribi said that the Design Review Subcommittee should then include this as an item for their review. TTC should communicate to the public that there is a problem. For example in Eglinton Station regarding height; Davisville station on the southbound, platform has a lip; and Union station north side platform, curves at every car.

Bill Dawson said that the scenarios to consider include, how worn the track and wheels are or there might be problem in suspension on one of the trains. Some are easy and some are not, to fix. It is an ongoing problem but not isolated.

Communications Subcommittee (CS) - Howard Wax, Chair

No meeting. The next meeting will be on August 9, 2012 at 1:30 pm. Carla Basso will be back by then.

8. Customer Liaison Panel (CLP) Update - Mazin Aribi

Mazin Aribi reported that the CLP had their second meeting on July 18, 2012. Donna Bryant and Chris Upfold gave PowerPoint presentations. The presentation by Ms. Bryant discussed any ideas/support that will make the transition to LRV and PRESTO faster and simpler for customers. Mazin hoped Ms. Bryant can come back and attend an ACAT meeting to share this presentation.

Mr. Upfold presented the Customer Strategic Priority part and asked for any thoughts or questions. Mazin shared that, under the Customer Personas and Customer Engagement Strategies part, they were divided into 4 groups of 2; one group for each customer segmentation namely, customers with special needs, leisure, tourists and commuters. They also answered questions from the document “Developing Customer Personas”. The results will be posted in Google Groups.

Mazin stated that the next CLP meeting will be on Wednesday, September 12, 2012. He reminded the Committee that the next Town Hall meeting will be on Saturday, September 15, 2012 from 1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. at 1 Colonel Samuel Smith Park Drive (Kipling Avenue and Lake Shore Blvd W.) Toronto, ON M8V 4B6. This information is also available on the TTC website.

9. Report on Commission Meeting and Accessibility Matters

Valdo Tammark reported that the Commission meeting held June 29, 2012 was brief. The next meeting will be September.

10. Review of Correspondence - Nil


11. Other / New Business

Howard Wax inquired about the Seniors Forum which was attended by Anna Noviss, Dorothy Creaser, and Angela Rebeiro. Angela Rebeiro said that it was just filling out of forms. They waited for the plenary to start and talked about things in general mainly how to fill out the forms and where to leave the forms.

Anna Noviss said that there was a doctor present; but she just did not get the name, who was trying to outline things. There were questions raised but all comes back to try to fill up the forms.

Angela Rebeiro shared that she did not fill out the forms. There was no feedback if the concerns of the seniors were addressed. She said she is tired of hearing that seniors are costing us money and also there is lack of information on the contributions that seniors make. Ms. Rebeiro said that ACAT should deal with the seniors’ issue. She said she prepared a letter outlining her concerns and sent them to Councillors. She told the Committee that she could provide a copy to anyone who is interested.

Howard Wax asked Ms. Rebeiro about her overall observation.  She said that there is no shape or form to the Forum. She thought it would be constructive but she did not feel like the concerns of the seniors were addressed.

Howard Wax then expressed his pleasure in seeing Tom McPherson, Thomas Hartley, and Bill Frost at the meeting.

Valdo Tammark reported that Dorothy Creaser had resigned despite his attempts to convince her otherwise. Carol Anne Monet asked Mr. Tammark if the vacancy/position will be filled by pulling someone from the pool. Mr. Tammark said that the ACAT Executive will meet and discuss.

Mazin Aribi suggested that a thank you card be sent to Dorothy and the majority agreed. Howard Wax would like to personally thank Dorothy for her contribution to Wheel-Trans, the Design Review Subcommittee, and Service Planning Subcommittee.

12. New Meeting 

The next meeting of ACAT will be held on Thursday, August 30, 2012, , in the 7th Floor Boardroom, 1900 Yonge Street.

13. Adjournment

On motion by Brayan Bratanov and seconded by Anna Noviss, the meeting was adjourned at 2:10 p.m.

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